The leadership of the People's Republic of China must decide whether they want to side with Russia and support it with the supply of weapons. About it in the interview Voice of America said White House National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby.
According to him, China may be dealt a blow in the international community if Beijing decides to supply weapons to Moscow.
"Voice of America": President Biden meets with Chancellor Scholz. Both recently met with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyi, and they will compare their views on supporting Ukraine. Will they also talk about ways to peace?
John Kirby: I think that both leaders share the desire of Ukrainians for a just and stable world - a world that affirms Ukraine's sovereignty and protects its independence. In addition, they both agree that this should be a peace that President Zelensky can subscribe to; this should be done in the course of comprehensive consultations in full coordination with the Ukrainians. Otherwise, there is no way the world will ever come and it won't be sustainable.
"Voice of America": Last week in Germany, 10 people protested against sending weapons to Ukraine. Chancellor Scholz is under political pressure. Is the president concerned that this might affect NATO unity?
John Kirby: No, the president is not concerned about the unity of the allies. If you look back at the past year, you will see that the Allies were incredibly steadfast, determined and united in their support of Ukraine. And the president is convinced - especially after returning home from the meeting with the Bucharest "Nine", the meeting with his colleague in Poland and, of course, after the meeting with President Zelensky in Kyiv - he is even more convinced that the alliance's unity will be preserved. But we don't take anything for granted. We know that we must continue to work to provide Ukraine with the support they need most. However, the president is confident that the allies will remain united.
"Voice of America": Ukraine is the focus of the meeting. But does the president also intend to say that it is strategically risky for Germany to be dependent on China for trade, just as it was risky to be dependent on Russian gas? Will the president urge the chancellor to take a tougher stance on Beijing?
John Kirby: This year's visit by the German chancellor is really about how we can maintain coordination while supporting Ukraine. And I would like to emphasize that Chancellor Scholtz expressed his concern yesterday about the possibility of China providing lethal weapons to Russia and called for China to focus on persuading Russia to withdraw its troops from Ukraine. First of all, this invasion is illegal. But with regard to economic practice, these are sovereign decisions that Chancellor Scholz must make on behalf of the German people.
"Voice of America": Regarding China's possible supply of weapons to Russia, the US ambassador to the UN, Linda Thomas-Greenfield, recently said that if China does this, it will be a red flag. Is the administration ready to support this warning?
John Kirby: I don't think it would be helpful to speculate at this stage. You heard Secretary of State Anthony Blinken say that. He mentioned privately in a conversation with his Chinese counterpart that obviously we don't want them to move in that direction. They did not do this, although they did not remove this issue from the agenda. We were very open about the consequences of this move. It is obvious that at least this step will deal a blow to China's position in the international community.
China has to make a choice. Does he really want to side with Russian President Putin? Does he really want to help Mr. Putin in killing innocent Ukrainians? Because that's exactly what such a move would look like. And if China cares about its international reputation, one might assume that it would see this as not in its interests.
VOA: Let's talk more about this reputation or shame strategy. On the eve of the Russian invasion, you said you had intelligence that Putin was going to invade, and he did. Today you say that China can potentially arm Russia. But if the deterrence strategy didn't work to keep Putin from invading Ukraine, why do you think it will work to keep Xi Jinping from helping Putin?
John Kirby: It's not about shame. It's about sharing our concerns privately with the Chinese side, and also publicly sharing concerns that we see signs that China could potentially be moving in that direction. China has to make a choice. President Xi Jinping has a choice to make. And we strongly urged him to make the right choice, not to make it easier for Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians.
"Voice of America": And this approach, in your opinion, will be an effective deterrent?
John Kirby: It will depend on President Xi Jinping and the Chinese people.
"Voice of America": We know that Iran and North Korea supplied weapons to Russia. Apart from Belarus, what other country could potentially become a channel for the shipment of Chinese weapons to Russia?
John Kirby: This is a great question for Vladimir Putin. Who else will he turn to to try and get weapons and opportunities to continue the carnage in Ukraine? We know that Iranians are an integral part of this effort. We know that the North Koreans provided artillery ammunition to Wagner's group on at least some occasions. And I think President Putin should tell us who else he's going to turn to on this murderous path.
"Voice of America": Sources potentially point to Myanmar as one of the possible countries. Do you have any intelligence that confirms this?
John Kirby: I don't have any other countries listed that I can report on today.
VOA: Yesterday we talked about the $620 million arms sale to Taiwan. Do you think that in this way the administration of the White House is helping Taiwan to prepare and stock up on ammunition in case of a Chinese blockade?
John Kirby: It is about helping Taiwan with its self-defense capabilities. In particular, it is about ammunition for their F-16 fighters. We work side-by-side with them on their needs, and that goes a long way toward fulfilling our obligation, both legally and morally, to make sure they have adequate options for the necessary self-defense.
"Voice of America": All things considered, could the supply of arms to Taiwan give Beijing an excuse to send arms to Russia?
John Kirby: This is a question for President Xi Jinping. He should have no reason to seek to supply arms to Russia. He has no reason to seek to help Mr. Putin kill innocent Ukrainians. What is actually included in President Xi Jinping's calculations is a question for him.
Arms sales to Taiwan are consistent with our obligations under the Taiwan Relations Act and our belief that we must continue to assist it in maintaining sufficient self-defense capabilities. This is a separate issue from Ukraine.
"Voice of America": Does the White House view Iran as a global threat rather than a regional one?
John Kirby: Iran has certainly remained a regional threat for quite some time and continues to do so. They fuel instability throughout the Middle East, continue to support terrorist networks, continue to threaten shipping in the Persian Gulf and beyond. And now they directly affect the war in Europe. So, of course, they have spread their harmful effects far beyond the region.
VOA: Do you consider them a global threat now?
John Kirby: I'm not going to characterize them one way or the other, other than they are a malevolent actor in the region, and they are now extending that influence beyond the Middle East. The other part of this that's worrisome—and we've talked about this before—is that they're going after Russian capabilities instead. If this happens, Iran will benefit from Russian technology, making it an even greater threat to our friends and partners in the Middle East.
"Voice of America": Is there any news about the poisoning of Iranian schoolgirls? You said the cause is unknown. Do you know more details now? UNICEF offered Iran its help. Is the US ready to offer the same?
John Kirby: I'm afraid we have no further information on these poisonings. They cause deep concern. We want the Iranian government to investigate – they say they intend to. We want this investigation to be thorough, complete and transparent to the Iranian people and the rest of the world. Children should not have to worry about their safety when they go to school. They should have the opportunity to think not about this, but about learning.
