Vitaliy Sautyonkov is a deputy of the Odessa City Council and a successful businessman who joined the rating of the 100 most influential people of the Odessa region for 2021. He gained wide fame thanks to his active political activity and conflict with the management of the Art Museum, but this time ElitExpert decided to talk to the deputy about global matters - geopolitics, especially since the beginning of 2022 turned out to be very stormy in this regard.
— The first days of the coming year began with unrest in Kazakhstan. Can you give an assessment of what happened in our once brotherly republic?
— Speaking frankly, I believe that they tried to bring to Kazakhstan a certain substrate of those color revolutions that our transoceanic and European "partners" have been successfully exporting to the post-Soviet republics for the past 20 years. With one difference - the rebellion was supported by part of the former government of the previous president, Nursultan Nazarbayev, by people who are still in leadership positions, so the seed fell into fertile soil for development.
Of course, what happened in Kazakhstan, one of the former republics of the Soviet Union, cannot help but worry us, because the events unfolded according to a scenario similar to the Ukrainian one. The only but significant difference is that President Tokaev managed to bring his supporters to combat readiness in time, managed to "motivate" both them and the security forces. And the most important thing is that this so-called The people did not support the "revolution".
— Do you think that the cause of the riot was an economic issue?
- Definitely not. This is a banal demand for a coup d'état, which was previously successfully implemented in Ukraine, and which was tried to be repeated in Belarus. By the way, it is a big mystery to me why the EU continues to vehemently condemn the crackdown on people in the post-Soviet republics and absolutely does not notice how in its own European countries, with particular cruelty, “anti-covid” protests are dispersed with ice water, and migrants who try to break through from Belarus are stopped with rubber bullets Poland... We have seen this policy of double standards for more than one hour and more than one decade.
Returning to Kazakhstan, I will say that the entire technology of color revolutions, tested many times, was not fully observed there. Protesters almost immediately began to destroy buildings, set fire to cars, engage in looting... There was no swing, a peaceful "preparatory period" when ordinary dissenting citizens could join the revolution. That is, the organizers simply did not have time to turn passive dissenting citizens, who are in any society, into active dissenters - either with the help of financial stimulation or with the help of appeals to some romantic ideals. Everything immediately went wrong, and when blood was shed, the people turned away from the rebels.
— Do you think that due to the events in Kazakhstan and the rapid reaction of the CSTO, the role of this military union has increased on the world stage?
- Definitely. In principle, it was the CSTO that played a decisive role in preventing a coup in Kazakhstan. In the world, there are many stillborn military alliances that exist only on paper, but have never been implemented in practice. And the CSTO served in this case as a quick and sobering blow to the rebels - just over 5 professional soldiers managed to quickly stabilize the situation.
Such a resolution of the conflict is a definite positive signal for the post-Soviet republics. In Belarus and Kazakhstan, the pro-Western lobby could not achieve what it achieved in Ukraine, after which our country went down the path of economic decline. They wrapped the revolution in a beautiful envelope, but the refrigerator of the Ukrainians became empty. Therefore, the aftertaste of such "revolutions" is there.
— Some experts claim that in 2022 a change of geopolitical vectors, the so-called reorientation towards China, is possible. What do you think about it?
— I think that a change in geopolitical factors has been happening for a long time, and the United States is losing its position. There is a well-known children's game - "king of the mountain", the meaning of which is to fight off all opponents and remain on the "mountain" alone. However, the longer you sit on the mountain, the weaker you become, because after a certain time, all those whom you threw down gather in one big pile and overthrow you. Therefore, now the role of China is clearly increasing, supported primarily by its economic power, plus there is Russia, which also clearly does not want to lose.
In general, I am sure that the unipolar world is ineffective, no matter who is ahead in this race - USA, China, Russia, Germany... There is such a concept: "harmony of counterbalance". If 3-4 countries will have roughly equal economic and military capabilities, then despite the seeming instability at first glance, the world will become much more stable. If only one country is "ahead of the whole planet", then humanistic principles can be forgotten, it will be "tied" to suppress, command, oppress all others, and ultimately - try to make the whole Earth one state. I am convinced that the average citizen of our planet will not win from this.
— In the following year, negotiations between Russia and NATO continued. Some call it a constructive dialogue, others call it "screwing the nuts"... Do you think that Russia's role in this political game is leading or leading?
— I believe that Russia, in principle, adequately responds to the challenges thrown at it. And I really would not like any military conflicts to be unleashed on the territory of Ukraine because of NATO policy.
The fact is that the reason for today's confrontation in the world is the hegemony of NATO, which is spreading all over the planet, especially in Eastern Europe, its expansion to the east, the approach of the alliance to the borders of the Russian Federation. Of course, Russia, as a major player in the world political arena, cannot afford such humiliation and is forced to react.
But for Ukraine, the issue of relations with NATO should definitely be resolved only through a referendum. This question is more important than presidential elections, it is a vector of geopolitical development of the country for the next decades. Without a referendum, this is a usurpation of power, an attack on all possible constitutional norms and laws. In addition, even if a referendum is held in the current conditions, there are big doubts as to whether it will be held honestly, in compliance with all norms and without falsification of the results.
— What do you think, does the Russian leadership want the "restoration of the USSR" from the current sovereign states?
- Surely he wants to. Whether there are political reasons for this - each country decides independently. But there are definitely grounds for economic cooperation of sovereign states. The years of independence have shown how difficult it is for us to manage without gas transit, without normal gas prices, which we have lost, without normal relations with a trading partner who has been our neighbor for a long time.
- You represent OPZZ, a unique Ukrainian party that manages to lose, even when it wins... Why are these constant tactical defeats, if there are millions of supporters of the party in the country? Aren't you tired of being in the opposition and "beating your head against the wall"?
— I want to be a member of the party that defends interests close to my inner spirit. Yes, I am very sad that we are always "two steps away from victory", but at the same time we are losing and we cannot, for the umpteenth time, show what the party is capable of, what its real potential is, what new opportunities it can give the country . Apparently, we are hindered by internal disunity - there are too many strong personalities in the party. The fact is that OPZZh unites the opinions of so many people that being a comprehensive and bright leader in it is quite a difficult task. It is easy to unite around simple ideas, as, for example, in "European solidarity" - there "scraps" are primitive. It is much harder to unite around the complex. After all, it is important not only to comply with the declared values, but also to have your own view on the development of the country in all spheres: economic, social, etc. In addition, sometimes we stumble upon the moods of people who want to believe in a fairy tale. I believe that people voted for the "green" government precisely because they believed in the fairy tale that simple hairdressers, security guards, and cashiers can come to the Verkhovna Rada and life in the country will improve. It didn't work, unfortunately.
— As soon as we started talking about the complex, I would like to remind you that the International Expert Club, which I head, presented the second national ranking of influence of "Elite of Ukraine". The global goal of this rating is to help the formation of a qualitatively new elite in Ukraine - not with gangster, corrupt roots and inclinations, but with high moral values and a high level of intelligence and responsibility for one's country. What is influence and elitism for you?
— In a broad sense, the elite are people who glorify the country with their achievements: athletes, scientists, doctors. And in a narrow way, this is someone who influences the processes and accumulation of funds. However, this is a developing concept, because whether we like it or not, there have always been social classes in history. India is still divided into castes that practically do not intersect, almost the same was the case in the Russian Empire. It's cruel, but it's reality. Yes, I believe in human potential, and I would like to think that all people have the same potential from the start, but this is not so. We are all born in different conditions, with different physical and mental capabilities, in different families - some develop their inherent abilities later, while others degrade them. In our country, the process of initial capital accumulation has passed, and a new group of elites has already appeared - the second generation of people who did not earn this capital themselves, but received it by inheritance. And it is very important that this generation guides the ego in the right direction. We have fewer and fewer people who have achieved something from scratch by themselves, so such people are more valuable.
And in general, I am sure that the person who first became successful for himself can be successful in any field.
Interviewed by Elena Ovchinnikova
Photo: Sergey Lyashonok
