President Volodymyr Zelensky gave an interview to the Axios program, which is broadcast on the HBO platform. today ElitExpert has already quoted the main statements of the head of state. Now the President's Office has published the full text of the interview.
Here is the full version.
The President of Ukraine: Everything requires will. One of the main cases for us in Ukraine, what we started and in many ways became one of the best, is the digital sphere. We have a very good team, all young. Now we have electronic IDs, driver's licenses, an identification code in a smartphone. We do everything to minimize communication with officials, bureaucracy is where corruption begins. We launched the "Diya" portal, which we also use to coordinate with people who need to be isolated due to covid.
We want to restore the entire floor, make it modern. We watched Biden's inauguration here. We want to move away from monumentalism, gilding of premises, but preserve the architectural heritage. I don't know if I will make it to the end of my term, but I want to make a museum of modern art.
We met Mike Pence in New York and Poland. And Volker was here many times. We met even before I became the President. He is a good person. He did a lot for Ukraine.
The text of the interview
- Mr. President, we are meeting with you three days after the new administration in the USA is sworn in. What would you say to Joe Biden if he was here now?
- First of all, my congratulations. I really congratulate US President Joe Biden. I understand that there are many challenges now, and I will not be selfish. If he were sitting in front of me, I would not start with what Ukraine needs or what the relationship between Ukraine and the United States needs.
First, I sincerely wish him to cope with all the challenges that will be in front of him - peace challenges, Covid-19. Indeed, a lot was done, we can see it now. We thought that we have an unmodernized, not the best medical system, but we see that all European countries have not coped with Covid-19, and the United States is also no exception. Therefore, I wish him on his way to do everything that he promised to the people of the United States - that he succeeds in everything. First of all, I would like him to win all the most important, priority challenges. I understand that it is impossible to win everything, no matter how talented someone is or how lucky someone is.
As for Ukraine, I would like us to enter a new stage, start a new path. And the way for me is an open conversation. Now we have a very open conversation with you - we see each other's eyes, this is not just a conversation between diplomatic advisers or an exchange of opinions or letters. This is an opportunity, looking into each other's eyes, to understand, to say that we are partners, we appreciate the support of the USA, by the way, bipartisan support - that's what it is. I really would like the USA to succeed in what President Biden talked about. He said that he cares, will care, and will do everything for the safety of Europe. And for us this is the most important thing, because for us the security of Europe is us, it is the war in the east of Ukraine, it is the aggression of the Russian Federation, the annexation of Crimea. Therefore, maybe it is somehow selfish, but we address his words in Ukraine first of all.
I would like the United States and personally President Biden, who knows Ukraine very well, by the way, to really help us get out of this tragic situation. I call it a tragedy when a war in civilized Europe takes place in the XNUMXst century.
— What do you need from the USA?
— If we are speaking directly, I would ask not even as the president, but as a citizen of Ukraine. We are grateful for everything, but Ukraine does not just pay lip service to the fact that it wants to be an equal member of the Alliance, an equal member of NATO, because this is one of the most important points of security - the security that President Biden is talking about. How do you need to declare even more about the desire to join, if it is enshrined in the Constitution of Ukraine — direction to the European Union, European integration, and also joining NATO? Therefore, I have a very simple question - why is Ukraine still not in NATO? If without these phrases, we will all think, we will communicate, for me the first question would sound like this: "Mr. President, why are we still not in NATO?"
— And how do you think he would respond to that?
— I believe that the answer may sound like this: "Mr. President, we feel that Ukraine is a strategic partner. We understand that Ukraine really has a powerful army in Europe today and protects not only Ukrainian citizens, but also European ones in the east of the country. Therefore, in my cadet Ukraine should be in NATO. Or someone else will answer, but I would like him to be very honest.
- What else?
Geopolitics is very important, and you ask what else? I believe that we are doing many reforms in Ukraine today. About them later? No problem. But we ourselves - we do not print money, we do not have this opportunity. We have partners: the European Union, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, but I believe that it would be very fair that in such a difficult time... We are ready to do everything
- What else?
— Geopolitics is very important, and you ask what else? I believe that we are doing many reforms in Ukraine today. About them later? No problem. But we ourselves - we do not print money, we do not have this opportunity. We have partners: the European Union, the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, but I believe that it would be very fair that in such a difficult time... We are ready to do everything to ensure a normal investment climate, but American companies with their own capital could more likely to enter the Ukrainian market. For us, these are jobs, and for us, this is real attraction of real US business and their presence.
— Did I understand correctly — if Ukraine is not in NATO, it will be impossible to expel Russia from your country?
— If Ukraine was in NATO, there would be no escalation in eastern Ukraine.
— To the east of Europe?
— Yes, and it is correct, because we are now protecting Europe, no matter what. We are grateful to Europe for its help, for the sanctions policy, and to the USA. Sanctions are important. But you can't bring people back. And we understand all this.
— But I heard that Putin said that the sanctions are not terrible. What do you think?
— I believe that many sanctions worked. For example, it really worked against Nord Stream. And this is still energy security for Europe, the problem is not only in Ukraine, but it worked. With all due respect to our European friends, the decisive role, and this is true, was played here by the United States of America.
Therefore, sanctions work.
Second. We do not know if there would be a continuation of the escalation of the war without sanctions. We do not know you. We cannot invent.
But I want to tell you frankly that then, at the time the war started, we were without sanctions, without NATO, we were not very ready, our army was not yet modernized, we were not technically modernized, there was no help when the war started. But we managed to prevent the enemy from going any further. Therefore, it is not true that Ukraine cannot do anything without NATO. But NATO is a powerful signal to everyone when they say Ukraine is ours or Ukraine is not ours, you are not in a state of limbo...
— Was this enough for Ukraine in the fight against Russia?
- Not enough. Sanctions are precisely the moment of freezing the conflict, stopping the escalation. This is a good first step. But this is the first step. And we are not children anymore. When a child is born to us, we watch, we wait, which will be this first step. That is, this first step has already been taken. And then we want to see the child start to run, live, develop. Therefore, I want my people and my country to be united, to grow and develop, I want us all to "run", I want to return people and territories. And there are few sanctions here.
— But what do you need to do to achieve peace? How to understand Putin, how to work with him?
— I'm afraid that I can't tell this to the TV viewers, otherwise it won't work later. Because everyone will watch your program, even he will watch it. I am sure of this.
— Vladimir Putin is one of the major obstacles to peace. Putin sees Ukraine as part of Russia. He spent a lot of human and material resources to invade your country and increase this territory. What can make him leave?
— I think that if someone knew 100% how to do it, he would do it. The war continues for the seventh hour. Such situations occur not only in Ukraine, and everyone wants to find a way out. You and I are an example in Georgia, in Azerbaijan, Nagorno-Karabakh... And in Ukraine, in Moldova. Cases - they are all different, but somewhere very similar. Therefore, to say one hundred percent that someone knows how to do it - no, 100% - no. But there are certain steps.
The first is the association. I am not just talking about the European Union and NATO. After all, the issue is not in the legal form: you are in one union or another, you are in NATO or you are not in NATO. No. This association of people who start with the whole world puts pressure on that person or the politics of those people who do not respect world law, world order, and international borders.
— I sympathize with your position, because you were not the president in 2014 and it did not happen during your term, but, to be honest, the then US administration took insignificant steps and did not even provide weapons. And this was the Obama-Biden administration. Biden was responsible for Ukraine. When they really should have supported you, they didn't. And I would like to know what you will tell them to convince them to take personal participation and help you?
— They must feel, understand that Ukraine is Ukraine, and who is next? It can be any European country, it can be the United States. We see not only armed intervention, as it happens in Ukraine, we see an information war. And the USA is one of the vivid examples of how this happens: information warfare, cyberattacks. You understand that the distance between countries does not matter. We all turn to talk about nuclear weapons, about disarmament, that nuclear weapons should not be used, because this is the potential destruction of the world. But at the same time, we forget that information weapons are more powerful than nuclear weapons in the world for a long time, because they are not prohibited.
What happened, for example, in Donbass? The first step was not armed, it was informative. Part of our country was subjected to an information attack that "there, in Kyiv, you are not respected, there, in Kyiv, they forbid you to speak Russian." I always said that this is a lie. Because I myself was born in a Russian-speaking family. I have already talked about my relatives from Odessa, about 80% of them speak Russian. And the people of Odessa defended Ukraine from the very beginning of the war, like every one of us.
Therefore, first there is an information attack. How to help? Little military aid, let the United States not take offense at me. Although we are grateful for the increase in this military aid. $25 million more was allocated for lethal weapons this year. But these sums will not be enough for an information war. This question is for everyone. We should definitely talk about the center for countering cyberattacks.
— Don't they feel betrayed in Ukraine due to the non-fulfillment of security guarantees after the rejection of nuclear weapons in the early 90s of the last century, due to the non-fulfillment of the Budapest Memorandum?
— In general, I believe that this is treason in relation to Ukraine. I think this is a big mistake. After all, any peace diplomatic agreements from the moment the Budapest Memorandum is not implemented are "multiplied by zero". And no matter what we sign, no matter what the countries agree on, there will always be a risk that someone will say that this is some kind of paper and it is not necessary to fulfill it. That is, in the XNUMXst century, the traditions of the Middle Ages still work, when it is not the power of agreements, but simply power. Who is stronger, who has more weapons, so to speak, writes the Constitution of your country. This is an offensive situation. There were several such situations in Ukraine.
I understand that nuclear weapons are very bad. But if there were nuclear weapons in Ukraine now, if we had not made such a big mistake then, and I believe that this is a mistake for today, then there would not have been an invasion, and we owe our territories. Because we could always speak on an equal footing with the Russian Federation and the rest of the world. That's all.
— Are you not thinking about trying to return Ukraine's nuclear status?
— I think that it is wrong to do this today. After all, we must not turn from people into animals. After all, civilization will win in the end. No matter how we feel about democracy, as Churchill said, there is no better one in the world yet. With all the disadvantages of democracy, with all the disadvantages of nuclear disarmament, with all the challenges that we had when our territory was taken away and 14 people were killed - still, if we want to build a democratic, civilized country, we must follow peace law, must remain human.
This is the same as they once said about me and Ukraine, that "when you become president, you understand how the country lived, many people were corrupt, they took bribes, and how can there be one" white crow ", if around many people take bribes? » So this is an example. We say that fish rots from the head. That is, even if everyone around you will take bribes, it does not mean that you must live by the laws of the majority. This is wrong. It's the same here.
— Unfortunately, many Americans still associate your name with the telephone conversation with Donald Trump and the impeachment of Donald Trump. They are interested in how you perceived this situation?
— When my name appeared on the pages of many media outlets, I read that Trump was putting pressure on me. First of all, it was very embarrassing. Because I am the president of Ukraine. We are smaller than the USA, but we are an independent country! And we proved it to Russia when we preserved our independence. And we prove it.
Therefore, Trump did not pressure me, and I will never say that. Because we are talking about the president. I am not just a citizen.
There was only one inconvenience. I didn't talk about it before. Conversations between people, between politicians, between presidents, which on both sides contain one or another information. And you must be responsible for this information that you convey to the other party. I did not want me or Ukraine to be accused of being involved in the domestic policy of the United States, influencing this policy, influencing, God forbid, the choice of the free American people. I didn't want that, and that's why I really did everything to make Ukraine involved in it. And she was almost not involved in it.
But things were not very clear to me when our conversation was published. I think that this is very wrong. And it was not published by Ukraine. I would never allow this. No matter what we talked about. This is the first serious conversation between two presidents, between strategic partners. And in any case, none of us has the right to publish such things. These are personal things. Yes, we do not belong to ourselves, because we are presidents elected by the people. But I believe that this cannot be. This is wrong, and this was the beginning of this whole case.
— Are you angry with Donald Trump?
- A little.
— After all, you came to the post of president with the slogans of fighting corruption, he is your biggest partner, and all he wants is an investigation against his opponent.
— To be honest, I didn't feel that way about it. For me, the main thing was to preserve our relations, so that we heard that one country supports the other. Yes, there was a conversation, one or another topic was raised. And I'm really open. If there are these or other criminal cases, law enforcement officers must investigate it in any case. I don't want to stop them or, on the contrary, turn on the accelerator of these events. They have to do their job.
Then, I know, it sounded like the subject of Biden's son is the most important thing. And because of the records, which were then published, of a telephone conversation during Poroshenko's time, where Biden allegedly talks with Mr. Poroshenko... For me, the most important thing in this case is to understand how, in principle, something can be recorded in the office of the president of Ukraine. This is the main problem. Because this is the destruction of the institution of the presidency in Ukraine. Therefore, a criminal case was opened, and our law enforcement agencies are dealing with it.
— You talked about the great importance of the USA in the settlement of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Describe the role of the United States, do you want Joe Biden to act as one of the participants in the settlement of this conflict.
- I will explain. Today we have only one case — it's the Normandy format, in which, as you know — Russia, France, Germany and Ukraine. Today, unfortunately, there is a moment of stagnation. I believe that it is due to the reluctance of the Russian Federation to step forward. Because they thought that we would slow down the negotiation process, the Minsk process. But we are moving very quickly, we are ready to discuss all the details and go to the end of this war - to go to peace. For now, we are not talking about the restoration of relations between our countries — that is further. But we must stop the war between our countries, go to the borders, return our people and our territories. Therefore, we are moving forward.
Indeed, I believe that if the stagnation of the Normandy format continues - and there are many reasons for this: first there was covid, and for six to seven months we heard that because of covid we cannot gather - there were video meetings in the Minsk format and even video meetings advisers of the Norman process. Then something Ukraine does not want to do. But all this is chatter. If you want to stop the war and you don't care that people die, you will do it. This is exactly what we do. I don't see any wishes from Russia. Sometimes they really show it - especially after our conversation with Merkel, Macron, and Putin in "Normandy", and then we talked privately with President Putin...
I really believed that we have the opportunity to go forward and solve problems. There was a big exchange, they agreed on the points of separation, they even resolved the issue of gas security for Europe — a new contract with the Russian Federation. I had the impression that now we will move quickly. But then the stagnation of this process followed.
An hour and a month have passed since the Normandy meeting, and I do not see any serious steps forward. Therefore, I say once again: I believe that this is chatter. And Russia perfectly understands this. They are playing because they don't want to advance this process according to Ukrainian requirements. Yes, they want only in their own way. They see further federalization of Ukraine, and this is true. The weakening of the Ukrainian central government, the preservation of the separatists in one way or another - I understand what they are doing. We saw it in Transnistria — the same effect.
And I told the European leaders this frankly: if we continue in this format, then this format, unfortunately, will be exhausted. And that's why I wanted such a powerful world player as the USA to influence. Not theoretically, not outside the circle of the "Normandy Four", but to have one of the decisive missions. I would really like to involve President Biden in the Normandy format. I am ready to go to any lengths to reach an agreement with the President of the United States and the "Normandy Four". It seems to me that this can strengthen the negotiations. I also spoke frankly to our European partners: if it doesn't work and if everyone is not against it, I don't see a big problem to do another format in parallel with the Normandy format, where the USA and Russia must necessarily be.
This is a parallel case. This does not mean that we put an end to the Normandy format. But there are questions that are not on the agenda in "Normandy" and are not raised, namely: what to do with Crimea. When I arrived at the first meeting of the Normandy format, I did not understand why we were not talking about Crimea. All the partners said that Krym is not an agenda, and it was an agreement with the former president (Petor Poroshenko. — Red.). Then I asked the partners and Russia: "Name the site where there is an agenda that talks about Crimea." Or do you want to say that we should put a cross on Crimea and not remember that this is our territory? I, as the new president, cannot afford this. Do not want. And I will never accept it. And, I'm sorry, if I had been the president then, we would all have died there in Crimea, but we would not have allowed the "green men" there. And if the "green men" had not been allowed there, then Russia would not have helped the separatists and would not have been in the east of Ukraine. Therefore, the format should be the same, I think so.
— I was thinking about the difficulties you are facing now because of COVID-19 and the vaccine. It seems to me that this situation with Ukraine's requests to get a vaccine is a small example of the terrible situation in which you often find yourself. You turn to the USA, your great ally, with a request for a vaccine, and they say: "At the end of the line." Then Russia says: "Come to us, take our vaccine." But we don't know if their vaccine is safe. So, you have to turn to China. How did this painful process change your views on Ukraine's allies?
— There are several emotions about vaccination in the world. Perhaps they are not all pleasant, but I must voice them. The fact that Ukraine is not an equal member of the European Union is clearly indicated by the terms of the vaccination. We are not among the priority countries in the world that will receive the vaccine right away. The countries of the European Union, with which we have excellent relations and whose leaders I spoke to, said that they would help us. And indeed they will partially give us some of their vaccines. But it will be difficult for them to explain this to their people. It is very unpleasant to feel that you are standing with your hand outstretched. This is the same war in the east.
— But there is a Russian vaccine that they offer...
— I cannot risk the health of our citizens. I don't want to say any unpleasant words, because it is possible that because of my words, the deadlines for the delivery of vaccines will be even longer, so I will not risk it. But this is one example when the world reminds us that Ukraine should, first of all, develop itself as a strong country that has everything: its own weapons, its own army, its own vaccine, its own money — everything is its own. We reacted like civilized people. When covid started, we, for example, sent airplanes to Italy with disinfectants, with all the means that could help prevent the coronavirus. Because our alcohol industry is very developed, and where we could, we helped. And I believe that we have shown more humanity than many countries in the world.
You said about China. Yes, we will negotiate with all the countries that will be able to supply us with the vaccine. Sinovac is one of the Chinese vaccines. We have AstraZeneca. We have Moderna. I know it is more expensive, but Ukraine does not choose what is more expensive, but cheaper - we choose now. And, unfortunately, we are not in the first wagon of vaccination. We are somewhere at the end, and I want Ukraine to be at least within the schedule for the delivery of the vaccine.
Across Russia. I want to tell you about the Russian vaccine so that we understand. This is one of those manifestations of a serious information war that is being waged. The question is not that it says Made in Russia, the question is that no one can guarantee the quality of this vaccine. They take advantage of the fact that the European vaccine comes to us very late, and therefore offer their own.
— In the USA, both parties are very concerned that China is the number one geopolitical threat. Do you agree with this assessment?
— I cannot agree with this, because we do not feel this in Ukraine.
- Don't you feel that China is a threat?
- It's hard to say. I believe that there are many different potential threats from great powers. Since any great state sees itself first and foremost as an empire. And when the state turns into an empire, it sees only itself, and then the whole world.
We are neighbors with the same "empire", and therefore it is difficult for me to say what will happen to China. Now there is a kind of cold war in the USA with China, although it is public, because the war is at the level of business and the like. We know that the USA and business are represented in Ukraine, but Chinese business is also represented here. I believe that regardless of nationality, if people, business, a certain country respects you, respects your people and your borders, they can be present in your country.
— The PRC has a world-class reputation as an investor in the defense industry. China has become one of the largest trading partners of Ukraine. China is also set on buying Motor Sychy. Will you allow it?
— We will divide the answer to your question into two parts.
First of all, I am very happy about investments from the USA, and also because we have Chinese investments. They are in the USA and all over the world. Therefore, in many brands - both European and American, if you see a tag in addition to the name and brand, then very often you can see Made in China. This is so.
But I would divide investments into business and strategic spheres of the country.
Therefore, the second part of my answer is about Motor Sych. The question is not in China. The question is not even how the shares of the Motor Sych company were bought during the time of the former president, during the time of Poroshenko. The question is that we do not have the right to sell the control package of the strategic defense enterprises of Ukraine to any country. This time. Never, at least not with me - I'm not for life, I'm not the general secretary. In my time, this will definitely not happen.
— On January 6, President Trump held a mass rally and ordered his supporters to storm the Capitol to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. What did you feel when you saw what was happening in the USA?
- We were very impressed. Because this was the case in some countries of the world, we saw such cases. I was very surprised and did not even imagine that such things could happen in the USA. I believe that this was a powerful blow to US democracy. Through books, films and television, we have become accustomed to the fact that in the USA there is an ideal institution of democracy, according to which power is transferred from one president to another without war, peacefully, without revolutions. Yes, people can conflict, but everything is very consistent, calm.
We had two revolutions. We saw that. We saw and understood that this could happen in the world, but no one expected it to happen in the USA. This means that not everything is perfect. I think that there was a serious attack not only inside the USA, but also an attack from outside.
I am very glad that the independence of the USA withstood this challenge. And I think that there will be serious conclusions... When it was September 11 - we all remember it - it was some kind of horror. We watched, believed and did not believe that this could happen in the USA, where security is always at a high level. That's how I looked at this situation. And thank God that there were no such consequences here. This is precisely the information war in the world that I spoke about at the beginning - countries must unite to face such challenges and threats.
— Does it sound like you were deeply disturbed by what you saw?
- I was seriously worried. I really didn't want you to have a revolution - I can't say that it's a revolution, but I didn't want you to have some kind of coup, shooting, and, God forbid, victims. Just after that, I think it would be very difficult for the world to look at the USA as a symbol of democracy.
— I want to ask you about corruption. One of the associations with which international companies associate doing business in Ukraine is corruption... Can you explain to the audience what corruption looks like inside Ukraine, and what you do?
— First of all, I want to say that we have done a lot. We launched the work of the Anti-Corruption Court - immediately, three months after I became the President. It was very difficult to do, but today VAKS is working. Judges were elected together with international partners. I can't say that I, as a citizen, am 100% satisfied with the work of Vaks. Nevertheless, there are sentences, there are people, there are caught corruptors who received sentences. I think this is an important signal.
Second. We show actions. We brought back criminal liability for illegal enrichment of officials. We voted. Then we started a war with the Constitutional Court of Ukraine - I am not talking about the institute, but about some people, judges of the Constitutional Court, when they wanted to destroy and almost destroyed the anti-corruption infrastructure of Ukraine. I put everything on the line for my presidency. We acted quickly, harshly. We have returned the powers of NAZK, e-declaration. Now everyone can see it, the whole world.
There are strategic things that we have already voted on. There are current challenges, such as the COP, and we are fighting. This war is not over. We work with the Venice Commission, they support us. This is true. It is very difficult. Why? Since the legislation was built and changed during Poroshenko's term. The reasons are not only Poroshenko, I mean now not only his name, but the fact that in five years they have changed the legislation of Ukraine so much, you are, in principle, a judge of one or another, if he is a corrupt person fighting with the anti-corruption system of Ukraine or with security, - You can't fire him. Everything is built in such a way that you cannot do anything. I am like the president. No one. This is impossible. Even if he is corrupt, even if he is the Chairman of the Central Committee. If he bought a few hectares of land in Crimea during the war, during the annexation of Crimea, he bought it according to the laws that apply there, and there is current Russian legislation. Thus, he recognized Russia and its legislation in Crimea. And who is this? This is not just any person, an ordinary Ukrainian, but the Chairman of the Central Committee. We are fighting all this quite powerfully.
Now the Verkhovna Rada is considering the reform of the SBU. It should be voted on during this month in the first reading, during the first two weeks the draft law has already been submitted to the agenda (on January 28, the Ukrainian parliament adopted this draft law as a basis. — Red.). This is according to the SBU — that they should not be involved in the economy, about the deprivation of their economic functions.
A draft law on the Bureau of Economic Security was also registered in the Parliament of Ukraine (the document was adopted by the Verkhovna Rada on January 28. — Red.). This is a new body, and only it will investigate economic security in Ukraine. We begin to create an ego. The reform of the General Prosecutor's Office has almost been completed. There are many questions. But the most important thing is a major judicial reform, which no one has ever been able to get their hands on. And this is where the confidence of business — both Ukrainian and Western investors — in Ukraine begins. This reform will consist of many laws. Next week, the commission that was created under the President will present all the laws that we will vote on consecutively, within two or three years.
— It is very good that you personally understand the problem and scale of corruption in your country and offer various solutions to stop it. But it is obvious that oligarchs and people who have become suspiciously rich control the government, politics, individual politicians, industry, and mass media. This is a big problem, and this information is for you. What do you say to people in the West who say that Zelensky is doing the right things, but there is not a single "big fish" or corrupt oligarch who would be imprisoned, even though the president has been in power for almost two years? Why?
- I don't know if you will like such an answer. And who are the oligarchs that exist all over the world? These are large business structures. This is not just a person, these are large financial structures that have an influence on politics in the country and may even be "owners" of some politicians. There is no slavery in the world, but there is financial slavery. They influence politics, have their own media — television channels, other platforms that influence information policy in the country and abroad. That's who the oligarchs are. In Ukraine, there is no law on lobbying, which is the case in some European countries and in the USA. Lobbying is the influence of large financial groups through legislation and through lobbying companies on the adoption or rejection of certain bills, which then give profit to these financial groups. Therefore, when they say that there are oligarchs all over the world, I absolutely agree. They are simply civilized. They found the answer in laws on lobbying and something else, but they are there.
Getting rid of the oligarchs can be achieved in two ways: leaving them the opportunity to have a "television", one or another media platform, and leaving them the opportunity to influence the deputies. It is possible to do it, I want to do it in Ukraine. This should be accepted. It is not a simple decision of the law enforcement officers - who to put behind bars, who will be imprisoned. I am not opposed to imprisoning everyone who violates the law. But instead of some, others will come. Therefore, it is necessary to change this process at the legislative level. I believe that this can be done. Now according to their influence: does the party "servants of the people" or other parties have influence? I am sure that the oligarchs influence all the parties that are in the Ukrainian parliament. Not to the party as a whole, but to some people. But they have influence.
- These are not the same things, they are not the same people ... like, for example, George Smith, my party colleague - are they known differently than Kolomoisky?
- A little bit wrong. You should know that we expelled several people from the party. There were no such precedents in this parliament. Not a single party has retained its deputies, although it is known that some financial groups influence them. As soon as I had not only rumors and commissioned articles, but proof that this person is financed by one or another financial group, I suggested that the party get rid of this person.
— Regarding the latest sanctions against individual members of parliament who contributed to Russian interference in the presidential elections in the United States. The question is, will these members of parliament be prosecuted by Ukrainian justice?
Definitely worth it. And not only in front of these deputies. And in front of everyone. I want a criminal case to be opened on this matter. I started talking about it, how a conversation with President Biden, who was vice president at the time, was recorded from Poroshenko's office, how this conversation was recorded, by whom it was recorded, to whom it was transferred or sold - all of this is handled by law enforcement agencies. There are already developments, and soon there will be results. But I want all surnames to be in this list, as well as in the sanctions list. Deputies of which party they were. No party should be responsible for this or that person. People must be responsible for what they do. And that is why it is necessary to raise the question of the loss of mandates, leaving the party. But we must have the entire list - even those who held very high posts during my presidency. All those who interfered in the elections in the United States, if there were any, must answer according to the law.
— President Trump's Rudolph Giuliani met with Andrey Derkach, whom the US government calls a Russian agent. Will you cooperate with the federal investigation in the investigation of Juliana's connections with Russian agents in Ukraine?
— I'm afraid, as the president, I can't talk about it. We are ready to help. Our mood is very correct and productive. We are ready to help the United States get the truth and result in this case. Because it is very important for us.
— A similar question about the investigation of Hunter Biden in connection with his affairs in Ukraine. Will you assist this investigation?
— I cannot help the investigation. We can be open, provide the information we have. That is, there are no problems when criminal authorities, the prosecutor's office or other authorities of any country can cooperate with each other. And I think that this is normal.
— Do you know that your government is ready to cooperate with the investigation in the investigation of Juliana and Hunter Biden?
- I don't know.
- Finally. We have covered many topics, but perhaps you would like to add something else?
— I want people in the United States of America to understand that Ukraine is not simple, that Ukraine is strong, that we have a democratic, European attitude, we see our future; understood that there is no "corruption headquarters" in Ukraine. Corruption exists, we fight it and we will overcome it. We understood that what we were talking about - digitization - that we would be the best in the world. We already have electronic document management, and not even because we have a young team. And because I know that in order to fight corruption at the middle level, it is necessary to do everything in a modern format so that people do not even have the opportunity to talk to officials or other representatives of the bureaucracy. We will definitely do it. We are launching the paperless program already this year. That is, in 2021, all our authorities must gradually abandon paper documents, electronic signatures will be used. Bank accounts in Ukraine are already in electronic format. It takes 15 to 25 minutes to register a business. I know that Ukraine is changing every day. If it weren't for the war in the east, if we didn't give a lot of time, a lot of money, Ukraine would have "jumped". And so we go, and unfortunately, not very fast. This is a big burden - the war, and we hope that it will end. Therefore, Ukraine is changing, and I invite everyone to see it. They don't just believe my words, but come to Ukraine to see it.
— President Trump invited you to a meeting at the White House, is there already an invitation from Mr. Biden?
— I think that I will definitely be invited by President Biden to the White House, and I will gladly accept this invitation. I believe that we have a lot to talk about, but a lot to do. It seems to me that there will be some changes in the world during the term of President Biden. Very positive. I would really like for us to be able to help him in this matter, and President Biden helped Ukraine, which he knows very well. But not as deeply as we would like. I am sure that after our meeting it will be exactly like that. And I think that the invitation, our meeting with the President of the United States is a symbol of all the questions that you asked from the very beginning about what Ukraine expects from the United States, whether the United States perceives Ukraine as a partner, whether we will the second level of our relations, could the United States help end the war in Europe.
